Which rig?

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Which rig?

Marc Lien
Hello -

I’d appreciate your views on rig, between lug, lug-sloop (or dual).

- Why did you go with the setup you chose?
- How much longer does it take to single-handed rig the lug-sloop?
- Is the lug-sloop manageable to sail single-handed?
- How do the different rigs change sailing characteristics? speed, heel, pointing, tacking
- Views on losing the front thwart to accommodate the mast moving aft?

I’m likely to sail single handed most of the time, and occasionally with my young kids and/or with my wife or a buddy. I’m leaning towards the lug-sloop to give the kids a job, but am thoughtful about how manageable the boat is when I’m alone. And also whether losing the front thwart is a compromise worth making. I’m not intending to row extensively - only to help me get out of a fix.

Thank you all in advance.

Best,
Marc
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Re: Which rig?

Michael and Sarah Curtis
Hello Marc,

Sarah and I had Swefn built with the two mast positions. Together we sail with sloop rig and solo with mainsail only. She sails well under both rigs.

We have side benches instead of the forward thwart. This does give plenty of space for mounting the mast and rigging. When motoring the crew sits diagonally across from the helm on the side bench which balances the boat well. There is useful stowage under the benches.

One rowing position is lost but rowing from the centre thwart is fine.

All best,

Michael Curtis.
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Re: Which rig?

Marc Lien
Hi Michael, thank you for your reply. Really helpful as I consider the myriad of choices as I go through this build! Lots of fun though :)
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Re: Which rig?

PaulW
Administrator
Like Mike & Sarah, we decided on the dual option.  Generally I use 1 sail for 1-up and 2 sails for 2-up, though I occasionally sail solo with the sloop rig.  (Managing the jib sheets is a skill I must improve!)

We retained the forward thwart and made it detachable, though the mast can be stepped with the thwart in position.  
This mod and several others are listed on the "Proteus" web page.  Find it via the list of Known UK Morbics.  Details are gradually being added.  Please ask if you'd like any specific ones prioritised.

Happy New Year!
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Re: Which rig?

killick
In reply to this post by Marc Lien
Hi Marc,

I went for the lug rig on the basis of keeping things simple. I find it really easy to manage single handed and if I need to drop the sail and commence rowing operations the whole process works quite well. The only minor snag I find is the the spar end usually ends up in the oggin when lowering the sail, its easily recovered and the drama score is quite low. I had my sail made at James Lawrence Sail Makers in Brightlingsea.
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Re: Which rig?

Portnastorm

Doing this from my phone so I hope it works.
This is the schematic for a Topping Lift / Lazy Jack as designed and used to great effect by my friend CW on his self designed lugger.
I'll be having something similar on my boat, combined with a quick reefing system so that I can drop the sail into the lazyjacks when I want to reef or row.
Graham.
Graham Neil https://port-na-storm.blogspot.com/
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Re: Which rig?

PaulW
Administrator
>Graham - Re Lazy-Jacks.
Your phone worked! - Thanks.
CW's PollyWee system looks good, so with your recommendation I'll aim to adopt it.
To help me get it right, can you clarify?  Is the following correct? -  
i) line starts mast-head.
ii) passes down & around boom (about 1/3 from the aft end).
iii) "C"-shaped thingy apparently beneath boom is a hook/guide (actually on the side of boom so as to not part your hair).
iv) line goes back up to 1st block at mast head.
v) line ends at 2nd block which dangles part-way down mast.
vi) line from near forward end of boom passes through 2nd block, (then maybe via another block) to where it is fastened, eg at deck or CB case.

What is the significance of the red "x"s and blue blobs?
Can you give us more enlightenment about the CW reefing system?
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Re: Which rig?

Portnastorm

That pretty much sums it up.

In practice CW simply unhooks the line from the rear facing hook on the boom and lets it fall against the mast, pulling it back and hooking it when he wants to drop the sail.

The sail and yard is held by the lines preventing the yard capsizing. A marker sewn into the halyard shows how much to drop the yard to allow the reef to be hauled in.

The adjustment at the free end of the line allows him to raise the boom out of the way either for rowing or for the boom tent.

With a bit of shoving and fine tuning the boom  can be made to lie at any desired angle.

The blobs and crosses are just how CW identified various parts in his dialogue, which would have been much more eloquent than mine.


Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone



---- PaulW [via MyMorbic Sail-&-Oar Dinghy UK Network] wrote ----

>Graham - Re Lazy-Jacks.
Your phone worked! - Thanks.
CW's PollyWee system looks good, so with your recommendation I'll aim to adopt it.
To help me get it right, can you clarify?  Is the following correct? -  
i) line starts mast-head.
ii) passes down & around boom (about 1/3 from the aft end).
iii) "C"-shaped thingy apparently beneath boom is a hook/guide (actually on the side of boom so as to not part your hair).
iv) line goes back up to 1st block at mast head.
v) line ends at 2nd block which dangles part-way down mast.
vi) line from near forward end of boom passes through 2nd block, (then maybe via another block) to where it is fastened, eg at deck or CB case.
What is the significance of the red "x"s and blue blobs?


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Graham Neil https://port-na-storm.blogspot.com/
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Re: Which rig?

PaulW
Administrator
Great.
CW's posting, which IIRC is on UKHBBR*, might now make more sense to me than before.
Thanks PW

*For those who've not tried it - UKHBBR is UK Home Built Boat Rally - Another useful forum.

Found it! - CW's material on this topic is at:-
http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabble.com/Morbic-12-tp4030796p4031639.html
and
http://uk-hbbr-forum.967333.n3.nabble.com/CWs-Remarkable-Reefing-System-tp4032118.html
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Re: Which rig? S

Jon Dykes
In reply to this post by PaulW


Spent today fettling, sorting out reefing etc. The lazyjacks seem to work well although it does generate more string. Once it's up it's fine but it needs some care when rigging to make sure everything is not tangled.
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Re: Which rig? S

PaulW
Administrator
Boat looks lovely!
And your main-sheet lower block/cleat is impressive.

Re the lazy-jacks
Is that an adaptation of CW's "Polly Wee" system?
Have you got a hook/guide/mini-cleat on the side of the boom where the lazy-jack passes around and under?
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Re: Which rig? S

Jon Dykes
Thanks Paul. The mainsheet system is Harken, more expensive than standard blocks but way better. Once a dinghy racer......

I fitted a lacing hook on the side of the boom to secure the lazyjacks, it's the system described on here.
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Re: Which rig?

Portnastorm
In reply to this post by Portnastorm
I've been attempting to set up the topping lift/lazy Jack system as previously described here.
I've had a chat with my mate CW the brains behind this system and he has passed on some additional information.
The Red Crosses are stopper knots.
As you haul on the downhaul  the aft end of the boom will head skywards but the weight of the sail and boom  will make the whole thing want to swing forward and then gravity will pull the fwd end of the  boom crashing onto the deck, as the aft end rises even further.  
The stop knot at the top of the mast has to be positioned so that once the aft end of the boom has reached the required height it stops the line and further hauling will lift the fwd end of the boom.

I'm thinking the downhaul will prevent the boom moving forward.

CW feels that the stop knot at the aft end of the boom is probably superfluous.  

More work in progress.
I'll let you know.  


Graham Neil https://port-na-storm.blogspot.com/
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Re: Which rig?

PaulW
Administrator
All useful stuff.  Helps to complete the jigsaw!  Thanks.
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Re: Which rig?

Robinpop
Going back to Marc's original question, Paul has found the problem with sailing solo with the sloop rig is that the jib sheets get caught around the forward end of the boom when tacking.
We've tried adjusting height of jib, but it seems to happen anyway.
No really satisfactory solution has been found so lug rig when sailing solo is probably the best option unless you are prepared to leap about and curse a lot.
Robin P
(Paul W's co-builder)
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Re: Which rig?

Jon Dykes
I'm thinking of fixing a length of light shockcord from the end of the boom to the eyelet for the first reefing point, not too tight but enough to stop the jib sheets catching.
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Re: Which rig?

Jon Dykes
With the lazyjacks, I don't think you need the stopper knots as it restricts the height of the boom and yard when stowed. The bleater line stops everything moving forward.
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Re: Which rig?

Portnastorm
Help me out here Jon, what do you mean by The Bleater Line?
Graham


From: Jon Dykes [via MyMorbic Sail-&-Oar Dinghy UK Network] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 7:00:55 PM
To: Portnastorm <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Which rig?
 
With the lazyjacks, I don't think you need the stopper knots as it restricts the height of the boom and yard when stowed. The bleater line stops everything moving forward.


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Re: Which rig?

Jon Dykes
The Bleater line is a piece of cord that fixes to the boom to prevent the boom moving forward. It is in place instead of boom jaws, and is adjustable
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Re: Which rig?

PaulW
Administrator
In reply to this post by Portnastorm
BOOM JAW - We started out with a boom jaw on Proteus, and gave it a good trial, but ultimately decided to abandon it.  Actually, it ripped itself off the boom!

BLEATER - We have found it infinitely preferable.

WHAT IS It? - Ours is a loop of 4mm cord
It is currently secured by a knot, but may be permanently spliced when we have determined the optimum length.
It can be slipped into and out of position without untying.
For images, description and pros and cons of our prototype click "Boom Jaws Vs Bleater" on the RHS of https://mymorbic.uk/2/Proteus.html